Final Fantasy XIV: Fatigue System Troppo Restrittivo?
- Creatore Discussione puddux
- Data di Inizio
~Corno~
Lurker
Ok, qua l'ultimo aggiornamento:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/08/25/square-enix-on-ff14-players-get-8-hours-a-week/
se riuscite a scrollare la pagina in basso, cosa che a me è riuscita molto, molto, molto difficile, si legge che:
"In summary:
Players earn XP at 100% for the first 8 hours.
For 7 hours over this limit the XP received decreases to 0%.
The time limit for the playtime counter to reset is 1 week.
The XP gain limit is not tied to any class/job but is per character.
Drops and loot are not affected by the XP “fatigue”."
Ergo ogni settimana si ha: 7 ore di exp normali + altre 7 ore di exp gradualmente nerfata fino ad addirittura arrivare a 0% exp guadagnata?
Ma alla fine non è quasi la stessa cosa? Cioè: se ho un giorno libero tipo il sabato ed expo per 7 ore, poi domenica se expo ancora mi becco malus fino addirittura ad arrivare ad exp guadagnata Zero spaccato, il resto della settimana mi attacoo al c. e devo aspettare la settimana prossima per poter guadagnare anche un solo punto exp?
Ma ste idee di limitare la exp non se le possono ficcare dove non batte il sole e fine della commedia?
Ma forse anche questo sarà tutto un fraintendimento? Mha...
Intanto godiamoci la miquote nel link e dimentichiamoci del gioco che forse è la cosa più saggia...
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/08/25/square-enix-on-ff14-players-get-8-hours-a-week/
se riuscite a scrollare la pagina in basso, cosa che a me è riuscita molto, molto, molto difficile, si legge che:
"In summary:
Players earn XP at 100% for the first 8 hours.
For 7 hours over this limit the XP received decreases to 0%.
The time limit for the playtime counter to reset is 1 week.
The XP gain limit is not tied to any class/job but is per character.
Drops and loot are not affected by the XP “fatigue”."
Ergo ogni settimana si ha: 7 ore di exp normali + altre 7 ore di exp gradualmente nerfata fino ad addirittura arrivare a 0% exp guadagnata?
Ma alla fine non è quasi la stessa cosa? Cioè: se ho un giorno libero tipo il sabato ed expo per 7 ore, poi domenica se expo ancora mi becco malus fino addirittura ad arrivare ad exp guadagnata Zero spaccato, il resto della settimana mi attacoo al c. e devo aspettare la settimana prossima per poter guadagnare anche un solo punto exp?
Ma ste idee di limitare la exp non se le possono ficcare dove non batte il sole e fine della commedia?
Ma forse anche questo sarà tutto un fraintendimento? Mha...
Intanto godiamoci la miquote nel link e dimentichiamoci del gioco che forse è la cosa più saggia...
Ultima modifica:
Kovan
Divo
Sul link che ho riportato Tanaka dice che molte di queste sono solamente voci
Però in effetti c'è una sorta di fatigue già nella beta, infatti se in 1 giorno si expa per 7-8 ore consecutive sempre con lo stesso job, l'exp che si prende dopo diminuisce, però se si cambia job tutto torna alla normalità ;D
Però in effetti c'è una sorta di fatigue già nella beta, infatti se in 1 giorno si expa per 7-8 ore consecutive sempre con lo stesso job, l'exp che si prende dopo diminuisce, però se si cambia job tutto torna alla normalità ;D
stefattone
Divo
~Corno~
Lurker
Sul link di KovaN sembra ci sia un tizio capace di tradurre il messaggio giapponese al link
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/08/25/square-enix-on-ff14-players-get-8-hours-a-week/
clicando sulla immagine grigiastra con i segnetti strani, non sulla miquote mi raccomando
e riferisce:
"Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site
that explains the whole system in minute detail. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/
Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0
in 10% increments during the following 7 hours. However, this is class-specific.
So playing another class will give you a fresh 100% start for that class for 8 hours.
As pysical level is shared between classes, however, after 8 hours/week it's
down the road no matter what.
And SE seems pretty adamant about that.
Which I, personally cheer them for. Some people simply have to be guided to
get a life. Or play WoW. Or a Korean Grinder.
Of course, you CAN play longer without switching classes and you WILL get EXP.
But by playing double the "normal" time for that class (16 hours) will net you
only 150% of what a 8-hour-player gets.
The only thing SE did wrong was naming this a "fatigue/penalty" system. If they had
stated that "for the first 8 hours every week, you'll get a 100% EXP bonus. Yay!"
everybody would have been happy. Although technically this would be the same thing.
Psychology, psychology. "
Ergo, tradotto per noi mangia-spaghetti:
8 ore di exp normali + altre 7 ore di exp gradualmente nerfata fino ad arrivare a 0% exp guadagnata, il tutto legato alla classe utilizzata (e quindi all tipo di arma o attrezzo da lavoro) e non al personaggio, quindi 7ore x 18 classi alla settimana di exp normale?
Così sarebbe anche fattibile imho...
(Anche se un po' mi fa specie non potermi specializzare.
E a lungo termine mi sa che porterà comunque al distaccamento dei "superplayer" totali che si craftano e farmano tutto da soli monopolizzando l'economia dal resto della community.)
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/08/25/square-enix-on-ff14-players-get-8-hours-a-week/
clicando sulla immagine grigiastra con i segnetti strani, non sulla miquote mi raccomando
e riferisce:
"Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site
that explains the whole system in minute detail. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/
Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0
in 10% increments during the following 7 hours. However, this is class-specific.
So playing another class will give you a fresh 100% start for that class for 8 hours.
As pysical level is shared between classes, however, after 8 hours/week it's
down the road no matter what.
And SE seems pretty adamant about that.
Which I, personally cheer them for. Some people simply have to be guided to
get a life. Or play WoW. Or a Korean Grinder.
Of course, you CAN play longer without switching classes and you WILL get EXP.
But by playing double the "normal" time for that class (16 hours) will net you
only 150% of what a 8-hour-player gets.
The only thing SE did wrong was naming this a "fatigue/penalty" system. If they had
stated that "for the first 8 hours every week, you'll get a 100% EXP bonus. Yay!"
everybody would have been happy. Although technically this would be the same thing.
Psychology, psychology. "
Ergo, tradotto per noi mangia-spaghetti:
8 ore di exp normali + altre 7 ore di exp gradualmente nerfata fino ad arrivare a 0% exp guadagnata, il tutto legato alla classe utilizzata (e quindi all tipo di arma o attrezzo da lavoro) e non al personaggio, quindi 7ore x 18 classi alla settimana di exp normale?
Così sarebbe anche fattibile imho...
(Anche se un po' mi fa specie non potermi specializzare.
E a lungo termine mi sa che porterà comunque al distaccamento dei "superplayer" totali che si craftano e farmano tutto da soli monopolizzando l'economia dal resto della community.)
Ultima modifica:
Kovan
Divo
quoto, difficile leggere attentamente le info da quel sito speudo-porno-hentai, l'unica cosa che ho capito è che le giapponesi sono tettone
golconda76
Super Postatore
in questi termini a me andrebbe bene
di tempo per loggare non ne avrò molto, al momento deficito anche di internet XD letta così mi fa meno schifo che nella versione errata ^^
Kovan
Divo
Anche se alla fine cambiano solo le 8 ore con l'exp decrescente :/
Margalus
Lurker
E anche quella è una balla!quoto, difficile leggere attentamente le info da quel sito speudo-porno-hentai, l'unica cosa che ho capito è che le giapponesi sono tettone
Quel sito immagini 10+, credibilità 0
Gades
Super Postatore
Per me l'intenzione di mettere qualche limitazione in questo senso la hanno.
Poi qualcuno pagato da qualche altra casa avrà messo ingiro numeri falsi per scoraggiare dal preorder di sto gioco in modo da minarne il futuro.
Ovviamente quando inizierà l'open-beta e ci si potra assicurare di come è effettivamernte la cosa tutte le storielle cadrano ma ci sarà cmq gente che avrà già smesso di interessarsene e non leggerà quando scritto da chi ha provato il gioco.
Raistlin Majere
Lurker
Ok, è fake TUTTA la storia:
--
I don't see the point in not posting the translations in the entire day, usually the posts in EU comes in less of an hour.
We should call it a fake right now.
--
Tutte le news vengono tradotte puntualmente ad un orario prestabilità, dal forum jp a quello usa fino a quello EU. Non c'è nessuna news tradotta, sia sull'EU che su quello USA.
E' ufficialmente fake totale.
--
I don't see the point in not posting the translations in the entire day, usually the posts in EU comes in less of an hour.
We should call it a fake right now.
--
Tutte le news vengono tradotte puntualmente ad un orario prestabilità, dal forum jp a quello usa fino a quello EU. Non c'è nessuna news tradotta, sia sull'EU che su quello USA.
E' ufficialmente fake totale.
Kovan
Divo
Andate Nel topic di Final Fantasy sulla Fatigue System, ci sono molte informazioni utili a riguardo ^^
puddux
MMORPGITALIA Staff
Questo link può far luce sulla questione; cmq dato il polverone che s'è sollevato un pò ovunque per questa notizia, è meglio prendere ancora tutto con le pinze
Come già suggerito, consiglio di leggere il seguente thread: http://www.mmorpgitalia.it/forum/showthread.php?t=278286
Come già suggerito, consiglio di leggere il seguente thread: http://www.mmorpgitalia.it/forum/showthread.php?t=278286
eron
Divo
e molto difficile che ci sia un meccanismo realmente così restrittivo.Però un sistema che comunque limita le ore in cui puoi accedere al gioco in un titolo dove io ti devo pagare indipendentemente da quanto tempo gioco un mensile è assolutamente inaccettabile.
Falce
Divo
Sankaku complex è uno dei peggiori siti di informazione sul giappone, è abberrante la qualtità di menzogne che gira in quel sito come la marea di trolls e spam. Credo nemmeno 4chan sia arrivato a quel livello di bassezza.Che fonte è, un sito porno? Tette e culi ovunque
Falce
Divo
Stai scherzando vero? Pago un servizio 24/7 non a ore, non me ne può fregare di meno se tu puoi giocare solo 30 minuti la sera, questi sono affari tuoi. Se non ti sta bene vai altrove, nessuno ti obbliga a pagare.Pago la scatola, pago un mensile, pago le espansioni.
Perchè mi devo veder surclassare da un nutellaboy che preme 2 tasti per 20 ore al giorno?
Ah si stò sbagliando gioco no? o.o Se permetti decido io se e come un gioco faccia o meno al caso mio e se ne trovo uno con una feature che LIVELLA il gap tra me ed un nerd allora ben venga la feature. Il mercato "casual" prima o poi dovrà sfondare anche la barriera degli AAA mmorpg perchè oggi sei un hardcore gamer, domani uno che lavora 8 ore al giorno, torna a casa a sera fatta e deve pensare alla famiglia/casa/donna/figli e quando anche quello è sistemato si trova con un'oretta e mezzo di.... tv? Piuttosto mi sparo sui coglioni -.-"
Sono io che decido quante ore giocare siccome scucio la grana e sono abbastanza grande nel fare questa scelta, non la software house. E sinceramente se avessi poco tempo da dedicare al gioco online non giocherei a un mmorpg ma un fps, o se gioco a un mmorpg sono consapevole del fatto che i nerd che giocano 24/7 saranno sempre più skillati di me.
Acheldama82
Lurker
In termini meno aggressivi ma concordo, voglio dire piutosto ci sono dei f2p molto carini ai quali giocare o console.
Quando vai la ristorante non è che paghi per mangiare quello che vogliono loro ed hai un tempo limite per farlo, se pago un servizio voglio poterne godere ed usufruire totalmente nei limiti consentiti ma sensati.
Ultima modifica:
joeyx1
Super Postatore
riporto una cosettina ^^ buona lettura
Once again, we would like to thank you all for your participation and support during the Closed Beta. We will continue to take your valuable feedback into consideration as we develop the game during Open Beta and even beyond the official release.
Now I would like to take a moment to respond to the many questions and opinions regarding the manner in and rates at which experience and skill points are obtained in Beta 3.
Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.
In order to achieve this balance, we calculated a value for the amount of skill or experience points that could be earned in a one-hour period. This theoretical value represents an hour spent engaged solely in combat, levequests, or any other activities that earn skill or experience points, and sets a threshold delimiting how many of these points can be earned in a period of play.
Based on this, we have implemented a “threshold value” concept. These thresholds are regulated by a one-week timer that begins counting down the instant you earn skill/experience points. After a week has passed, the thresholds will reset, and the moment skill/experience points are earned again, the timer begins counting down anew.
For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.
It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.
Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.
The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.
This is how the progression system currently works.
This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:
- Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
- To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
- The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)
That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.
We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.
The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.
At the very least, we can promise that players won't be running into the threshold penalty in the same short time span as they did in the beginning of Beta 3.
We would like to take this opportunity to also explain the following issues.
The diminishing results experienced during gathering are a function related to that class alone, and have no connection to this progression system. We are in the process of adjusting this system, and plan to make changes based on tester feedback.
We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.
These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.
Last of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in releasing a developer's comment due to my recent attendance to Gamescom. The article based on my interview during that trip, coupled with conjecture, outdated information, and some misunderstandings on overseas websites, only added to the confusion. In the future, I hope to avoid similar problems by responding directly through official developer's comments as often as possible. Thank you for your understanding.
See you in the Open Beta Testing!
FINAL FANTASY XIV Director
Nobuaki Komoto
Once again, we would like to thank you all for your participation and support during the Closed Beta. We will continue to take your valuable feedback into consideration as we develop the game during Open Beta and even beyond the official release.
Now I would like to take a moment to respond to the many questions and opinions regarding the manner in and rates at which experience and skill points are obtained in Beta 3.
Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.
In order to achieve this balance, we calculated a value for the amount of skill or experience points that could be earned in a one-hour period. This theoretical value represents an hour spent engaged solely in combat, levequests, or any other activities that earn skill or experience points, and sets a threshold delimiting how many of these points can be earned in a period of play.
Based on this, we have implemented a “threshold value” concept. These thresholds are regulated by a one-week timer that begins counting down the instant you earn skill/experience points. After a week has passed, the thresholds will reset, and the moment skill/experience points are earned again, the timer begins counting down anew.
For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.
It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.
Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.
The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.
This is how the progression system currently works.
This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:
- Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
- To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
- The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)
That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.
We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.
The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.
At the very least, we can promise that players won't be running into the threshold penalty in the same short time span as they did in the beginning of Beta 3.
We would like to take this opportunity to also explain the following issues.
The diminishing results experienced during gathering are a function related to that class alone, and have no connection to this progression system. We are in the process of adjusting this system, and plan to make changes based on tester feedback.
We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.
These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.
Last of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in releasing a developer's comment due to my recent attendance to Gamescom. The article based on my interview during that trip, coupled with conjecture, outdated information, and some misunderstandings on overseas websites, only added to the confusion. In the future, I hope to avoid similar problems by responding directly through official developer's comments as often as possible. Thank you for your understanding.
See you in the Open Beta Testing!
FINAL FANTASY XIV Director
Nobuaki Komoto
karic a rvauta
Lurker
aspettavo un lampo che mi illuminasse nella dura lotta FF vs GW.. bene, ora ho le idee chiare.. quando esce GW?
...come sempre le solite notizie travisate, e come sempre la solita lista di gente che spiega perchè nn comprerà il gioco, ma tanto probabilmente nn l'avrebbero comprato comunque, quindi potrebbero risparmiarsi i commenti....d'altronde in un sito che ha un banner di wow grande metà schermo, nella sua homepage, nn vedo come le cose potessero essere diverse...
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